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Regarding Taxes

ronaldk

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This year would be my first year filing taxes for incorporation for Rental Property.Can someone met me know how are mortgage payments treated as when it comes to Income & Revenue Statement.

Even though the Statement shows it generated Profit it would not be accurate, as I am not profiting.Because part of Rents goes to Mortgage payments where do I show this.(In income statement?)

I dont want to end up paying big % of taxes.



Any advise from experienced Investors would help.

Thank You.

Ron.
 
Taxes are always fun, aren't they?



One thing to keep in mind that is often mistaken the tax-unaware is that cash flow does not equal profit. Just because you aren't making cash into your pocket, does not mean that you aren't making money, as each month your mortgage payment includes not only interest (an expense), but also a paydown of the principal amount owing (NOT AN EXPENSE!).



Now, if you are a corporation, I would highly recommend that you consult with a qualified accountant, as corporations have a whole bunch of extra items to go through with filing for income tax, and if you're not sure how to do it, it can go south in a big hurry.



That being said, the profits from a rental property can often be reduced or eliminated through the optional deduction of what is called 'capital cost allowance'. This is an optional deduction and is meant to be the government's way of allowing some expense for depreciation of your property. There's already a discussion going on that topic, so I won't talk much about it here, but just keep in mind that capital cost allowance is often a 'pay less tax now, but pay more later' scenario.



One thing I would recommend before going to see an accountant, is to make sure you have your paperwork in order. One of the big things that often gets forgotten is your mortgage statement. Most banks send these out about this time of year and it will show your balance as at December 31, as well as the interest paid through the calendar year. This can be very handy if your corporate year end is December 31 as it shows a very important part of the profit for the company for the year (namely, how much of the mortgage payment is principal and how much is interest). If your corporation does not have a December 31 year end, that's okay, this statement will still allow the accountant to determine the balances for your year end.



Have a good one!
 
Thank you Ryan.



So I believe basically a Rental Business when incorporated has to pay taxes when capital cost allowance is not taken into factor.(Because the total amount of Rent Received is shown as income - and the part that goes towards the mortgage payment(principal) is not shown as payment towards the mortgage.)



What's your opinion?

Thanks.
 
I guess the answer to your question is sort of a 'yes AND no', but I think you've got the right idea.



The part of the mortgage that pays down the actual mortgage principal does not get deducted because it is not an actual expense (technically it's a reduction of a liability, since with each payment, your mortgage balance that you owe goes down). Just that the way the question is worded, you still seem to be looking at the mortgage as a payment which should go onto the income statement.



Think of it this way. Have you ever seen the mortgage amortization schedule for your (or any) mortgage? It shows how much of each payment goes towards the interest on the mortgage and how much goes to paying down the mortgage. If you happen to have that schedule for the mortgage in question, great! Go get it! Now, think of each mortgage payment as actually being two payments. One is to pay the bank their interest for lending you the money, the other is the amount you're actually paying them back the money you borrowed. Only the interest portion is actually deductible for taxes.



That being said, yes, without taking into accunt capital cost allowance, the corporation should likely be paying taxes. Of course, depending on what kind of year you had, there could be other reasons that the corporation would have zero (or even negative) income. Long vacancies, large repairs, etc directly relating to the property (which we all hope doesn't happen, but sometimes it does). There's also the more 'overhead' type costs that don't relate to any property itself, but are still expenses. Accountant fees for year end, lawyer fees for maintaining the corporate minute book, bank fees for the bank account(s). That list could go on and on and on.
 
Thank you again for the above message.

I have to think about how to reduce that Net Profit.The accountant said its about 14% of the Net profit thats being taxed. I thought I wouldnt have to pay any tax under Rental Property Incorporation - I guess I was wrong.

Hopefully the Capital Cost allowance would help it reduce it.Thats only one of the options I got.



Thanks Again..
 
I'd make sure to ask again about the tax rate. One thing to keep in mind with a rental corporation is that it does not get the benefit of a lot of tax breaks that an 'active' business corporation would get. 14% sounds about right if this was an 'active' corporation, and only the federal part.



Because a rental operation is considered an 'inactive' business, it is subject to higher taxes (some of which are refundable if/when you pay out dividends at a later date). However, the tax on inactive income in a corp gets more into the 40%-50% range on the initial income, depending on province. It's actually quite common for owners to pay themselves a wage sufficient to bring the taxable income in the corp down to zero in order to avoid paying tax in the company. Sure, you have to pay personal tax on this income, but that is generally cheaper in the long run.
 
moparcanuck - sorry to hijack your post but I was interested in what you said about active vs. inactive income in a corporation. I am a CA but I've never dealt with corporate taxes at all (and hated the subject in university so have blocked out all knowledge gained there).



I did not realize that investment income in a corporation istaxed at a higher rate than even personal employment income. My intent was to set up a corporation, capitalize it with the money that we intend to allocate to real estate investing and then disburse the money over time as we purchase properties so some investment income will naturally be generated in the corporation until the amount is fully invested. Would it be more tax-efficient to a) keep the money in my personal account and only transfer into the corporation as and when needed, paying taxes on the investment income as normal on my personal tax return, or b) keep the money in the corporation and draw a salary in the amount of the investment income generated, only paying corporate taxes on the business income to the extent not offset by CCA?
 
There's so many variables in tax, it's almost impossible to give a simple answer on which way is better. Some of the things to consider (and I'll try to expand on the points, but again, no way can I be all inclusive)



1. Are you going to be subject to CPP premiums? If you earn the money yourself in your rental portfolio, there's no CPP premiums. This saves approximately 10% (since as self employed you'd have to pay both halves at about 5% each). This is also true if you let the corp pay the taxes and pay yourself with dividends. Only employment income (whether self or not) is subject to CPP. Now keep in mind that there's an annual maximum earnings (can't recall exact) somewhere around 40-45,000 per year. After that, no more contributions. If you're earning income from elsewhere and already max out in the year, it's no longer a concern.



2. Do you WANT to be in the CPP? Again, something of a personal question. Some prefer to have that ultimate safety net, just in case everything goes sideways. Others view their portfolio as their retirement and are confident in it. I always tell people they shouldn't loose sleep over that classic concern over whether CPP will be there when we retire, as it's well funded and should be good to go for decades.



3. Are you subject to any income tested clawbacks (Old Age Pension is kinda the biggie here). If you take a wage, or even earn the income yourself, every dollar that you earn is counted as exactly that.... a dollar. For instance, before you have to pay back any OAP, you have be earning more than around $65,000. If you're getting close to that, dividends from a corp may be a bad idea because of a tax calculation that treats every dollar of income as $1.25! Now, this is offset by a later tax credit, but not until AFTER you potentially have to pay back some OAP because you earned too much (even though you didn't).



4. Allowances from a corp. Tax law allows an employer (a corp) to pay an employee certain allowances without having to track EVERY LITTLE THING. If you're self employed, you don't get that option. One common example is vehicle costs. You drive around to review, manage, show, clean, repair, and sell your properties. A corp can pay a tax free allowance (currently about 52 cents, have to double check) for every kilometer. As long as you track those business kilometers, that's it. If you're self employed, you have to track EVERYTHING. Every gas receipt, oil change, repairs, maintenance as well as the number of personal and business km you drive in a year, and then you can deduct a prorated portion. Pain in the butt! Added note, for those who have enough properties, and think they can just write off the entire vehicle, you still need to track the kilometers to prove they're business, and you better have a seperate vehicle for personal use. Pain in the pocketbook!



5. Costs. Having your taxes done if it's in your own name is easy and fairly cheap. Lots of people can even just do it themselves. Corporations are a whole other animal. Tax return is completely different, plus there's usually annual costs for filing your annual return with provincial registries, minute book maintenance, etc.



I could go on and on, but frankly, my hands are getting sore. :)



However, let's not forget the one main thing with a corporation, and that's limited liability if something happens. A lot of times, the banks are not going to let you off the hook on a mortgage (if they even give a corp one, little harder to get) as they've probably got you to sign a personal guarantee, but if someone breaks their face on your property and sues you, having the properties in the corp can protect your personal assets. That's more of a legal matter which I'm certainly not an expert on, but wanted to throw it out there.
 
The income from the the rental property should be shown in the in income statement and similarly you have to record your mortgage payments in the income statement too as an expense item.The overall result of the income statement that your net profit will be less because you have deducted the loan payment amounts.
 
Jeffersonn,



As discussed through most of this thread, the mortgage PAYMENT is not an expense. Only the INTEREST portion of it. You can not deduct the PRINCIPAL portion of the mortgage that actually goes to pay back your debt to the bank.
 
[quote user=Jeffersonn]The income from the the rental property should be shown in the in income statement and similarly you have to record your mortgage payments in the income statement too as an expense item.The overall result of the income statement that your net profit will be less because you have deducted the loan payment amounts.




This is not correct. As has been stated a couple of times in this thread, only the interest portion of the mortgage payment is an expense item, not the total mortgage payment.
 
Thanks moparcanuck, this is EXTREMELY helpful. I'm about 30 years away from having to worry about CPP and OAP clawbacks but it's nice to keep that in mind. I have a book on order about legal and tax strategies for real estate investing, I clearly need to study it. And get some tax software and run some scenarios through it to check my calculations.
 
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