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Is my goal of $200K annual income feasible?

PaulW

PaulW

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Hello,

I recently came out to the Toronto REIN workshop and doing alot of reading on Don`s books and the posts here and would like some input. I now appreciate that REI is a longer term strategy and not get rich quick.

A little background...I`m 42, family man, own our own house with $260K mortgage on a $340K house, and have a pretty decent paying job ($100K/yr). I have good credit, some small credit card debt ($7K) but no "spare cash" currently and no I don`t spend alot of $ on toys. I do have $75K in RRSPs but most is "locked-in" as they are corporate-pension plans. I have PT hours (<5) per week that I could use for REI if I want to stay married!

I created "My Belize" and set a goal to earn $200K passive income per year in REI by the time I am 50 (8 years) and to earn $100K per year (replace my current salary) in 3 years. I don`t want to be rich when I am 75 and feel to give up my current career and live the live I want, I need to set my goals high.

At this point, I am somewhat confused/concerned over the small short term cash flows, the number of properties I would need to own to hit my goal, the time per week required and the restrictions to get financing once over 3 properties. My questions are:

1. Is my $100K and $200K goals achievable? If no, what is reasonable?
2. What short term and long term strategies and steps would you suggest I take?
3. Is 5 hours per week enough until I can work FT?
4. How important is having a Venture partner to accomplish this?
5. What are some steps you would suggest to find a Venture partner(s)?
6. What kind of properties or approach would work the best? I know it`s probably any and it depends...but what would you suggest I focus on i.e. multi-family buy and hold, rent-to-own?

Thanks everyone for your input! I would also like to hear your Belize as well just in case I`m way out to lunch!


Paul Woodall
 
I don`t know enough about you, but I`ll provide you answers from my point of view. Please keep in mind that these are only my opinion and do not necessarily apply for anybody else. I will answer the questions as if they were my goals.

QUOTE (PaulW @ Feb 6 2010, 04:34 PM) 1. Is my $100K and $200K goals achievable? If no, what is reasonable?
2. What short term and long term strategies and steps would you suggest I take?
3. Is 5 hours per week enough until I can work FT?
4. How important is having a Venture partner to accomplish this?
5. What are some steps you would suggest to find a Venture partner(s)?
6. What kind of properties or approach would work the best? I know it`s probably any and it depends...but what would you suggest I focus on i.e. multi-family buy and hold, rent-to-own?

1. $100K bottom-line within 3 years is possible, but not likely. For me to have a chance I would need to move aggresively into high return markets. Assuming that I can invest in these markets and gain a profit of $200 per month per door, I would need 40 doors after 3 years or 15 doors per year.

2. All successful investors that I have been priviledged to know are extremely strong at reading and interpreting financial statements. I would go so far as to say that it is not possible to achieve financial success without having a strong ability in reading and interpreting financial statements.

3. It is likely that I will need to spend more than 5 hours a week.

4. Considering your finances you will likely need a partner.

5. I can`t help you with this. I avoid money partners. This may limit me, but I understand that.

6. Assuming that I was a beginner, I would focus on #2 and after that I would spend my time on momentum plays - that is, properties that cash flow right from day 1 and all I need to do is drop off a set of keys to my property manager.

In conclusion, although the odds are slim to none, to increase those odds would require me to focus on #2 and to buy in depressed markets where there is a better chance to find a `deal`.
 
QUOTE (Rickson9 @ Feb 6 2010, 05:08 PM) 1. $100K bottom-line within 3 years is possible, but not likely. For me to have a chance I would need to move aggresively into high return markets. Assuming that I can invest in these markets and gain a profit of $200 per month per door, I would need 40 doors after 3 years or 15 doors per year.

2. All successful investors that I have been priviledged to know are extremely strong at reading and interpreting financial statements. I would go so far as to say that it is not possible to achieve financial success without having a strong ability in reading and interpreting financial statements.

3. It is likely that I will need to spend more than 5 hours a week.

4. Considering your finances you will likely need a partner.

5. I can`t help you with this. I avoid money partners. This may limit me, but I understand that.

6. Assuming that I was a beginner, I would focus on #2 and after that I would spend my time on momentum plays - that is, properties that cash flow right from day 1 and all I need to do is drop off a set of keys to my property manager.

In conclusion, although the odds are slim to none, to increase those odds would require me to focus on #2 and to buy in depressed markets where there is a better chance to find a `deal`.

Thanks for your input...to clarify what you mean by slim to none...

1. What are the restricting factors to accomplish that goal? If it`s my 5 hours per week, how many hours would I need? I am very financially oriented so think #2 with practise would be fine. Would financing 40 doors be the issue or finding 40 doors?
2. Curious why you avoid money partners?

Thanks again.
 
This is like opening a can of worms. There are a lot of different factors. What type of properties are you interested in? Where? How will purchase them? How will you use partners? All this takes time to learn (more than 5 hours a week).

You will likely need to use partners to accomplish this goal.
Think of it like this
40 single family properties> avg price of 250k, 20% down. = 2,000,000 in capital + reserves and legals and misc.

We use money partners to accomplish similar goals. This would be of personal preference.
You will be able to finance a portion on your own then you will need partners to qualify for mortgages and to bring capital.

Is this doable? Yes but with some sacrifices and VERY hard work. Is there an option to work less at the J.O.B which would give you more time on real estate and keep your family time to where it needs to be.
Family should always come first and the support of your wife or spouse! As I type this I have to ask myself that question too. Some weeks this business eats up a lot of time and I need the reality check once in a while.
 
QUOTE (PaulW @ Feb 6 2010, 05:25 PM) Thanks for your input...to clarify what you mean by slim to none...
1. What are the restricting factors to accomplish that goal? If it`s my 5 hours per week, how many hours would I need? I am very financially oriented so think #2 with practise would be fine. Would financing 40 doors be the issue or finding 40 doors?
2. Curious why you avoid money partners?

1. I only say that 5 hours a week are not enough because I know how much time I spend scouring for deals and 5 hours passes very quickly.

Your finances are problematic. I mean no disrespect, but a money partner who would be able to completely finance a 40 unit apartment (or three 15 unit apartments) would have no benefit being your partner unless you are able to find a truly terrific deal that they couldn`t get their hands on. It is more likely that you will find limited partners - each relatively insignificant, but together being able to haul down a deal.

Finding viable opportunities will always be challenging. Financing can be easy or hard depending on the deal that you find. The better the deal, the easier financing will be; vice versa.

2. I`ve done the partner thing. I don`t like partners to have a say in what I want to do. It`s annoying to me. You can solve this by using a limited partnership agreement where you, or a company you own, acts as the general partner.

Too many `investors` discount the importance of understanding and interpreting financial statements. They haven`t worked out in 30 years and want to run the 100 meter dash in 10 seconds and bench press twice their body weight, tomorrow.

This is why I said "slim to none".
 
QUOTE (GaryMcGowan @ Feb 6 2010, 06:06 PM) This is like opening a can of worms. There are a lot of different factors. What type of properties are you interested in? Where? How will purchase them? How will you use partners? All this takes time to learn (more than 5 hours a week).

You will likely need to use partners to accomplish this goal.
Think of it like this
40 single family properties> avg price of 250k, 20% down. = 2,000,000 in capital + reserves and legals and misc.

We use money partners to accomplish similar goals. This would be of personal preference.
You will be able to finance a portion on your own then you will need partners to qualify for mortgages and to bring capital.

Is this doable? Yes but with some sacrifices and VERY hard work. Is there an option to work less at the J.O.B which would give you more time on real estate and keep your family time to where it needs to be.
Family should always come first and the support of your wife or spouse! As I type this I have to ask myself that question too. Some weeks this business eats up a lot of time and I need the reality check once in a while.

Thanks for your thoughts Gary...some answers/clarifications.

1. I`m interested in properties that will get me to my goal and that people have had success in...you mention buying 40 houses for $10MM...that`s the part that I begin to question...would rent-to-owns work for short term and then some multi-families for longer term?
2. I live in GTA so would look at those markets deemed most investable (Hamilton, KWC, Barrie, Vaughn)
3. Not afraid of HARD work (do too much of that now!) nor sacrifices but always believe in balance...I can`t nor won`t ignore my family for 8 years to get to my goal. So can you do both?
4. 5 hours was just a number I threw out. I could spend 10-15 hours if I think the goal is attainable
5. Working less at J.O.B. would not work as I have my own mortgage and expenses to pay for unless I quit and got a PT job but them REI would need to make up a bigger cash flow

Sorry for the can of worms but need to get some insights before I commit.
 
QUOTE (Rickson9 @ Feb 6 2010, 06:14 PM) 1. I only say that 5 hours a week are not enough because I know how much time I spend scouring for deals and 5 hours passes very quickly.

Your finances are problematic. I mean no disrespect, but a money partner who would be able to completely finance a 40 unit apartment (or three 15 unit apartments) would have no benefit being your partner unless you are able to find a truly terrific deal that they couldn`t get their hands on. It is more likely that you will find limited partners - each relatively insignificant, but together being able to haul down a deal.

Finding viable opportunities will always be challenging. Financing can be easy or hard depending on the deal that you find. The better the deal, the easier financing will be; vice versa.

2. I`ve done the partner thing. I don`t like partners to have a say in what I want to do. It`s annoying to me. You can solve this by using a limited partnership agreement where you, or a company you own, acts as the general partner.

Too many `investors` discount the importance of understanding and interpreting financial statements. They haven`t worked out in 30 years and want to run the 100 meter dash in 10 seconds and bench press twice their body weight, tomorrow.

This is why I said "slim to none".

No disrespect taken...in reading posts and Don`s books, people suggest to find a JV partner and you bring the "deal/real estate" expertise. Your analogy of a JV financing a 40 unit building is valid...
1. Where would you find "limited" or "insignificant" partners?
2. What is a realistic hours/week and a realistic income/time frame? I know that is going to depend on alot, but perhaps if you could share some of your numbers or others that would help.
3. What are your thoughts on rent-to-own?
4. I don`t want to suggest that I am niave that I could learn this overnight, quit my job, make tons of money and retire in 5 years. Just want reality on what people have actually done vs what the books say.

Paul
 
I personally do not believe it is a realistic time table. There is much to learn about investing properly, that alone could take years for some, in addition to the time it would take searching out quality deals. I have often gone 6 months making 20 -50 offers before landing the right deal that I could afford and finance.

You can get into this business without cash but to do that you need someone else`s cash and to make lots you need lots.
$200,000/year is more than lots in my opinion.

This business is based on long term moderately steady growth to reach goals. Generally speaking I see 3 -5 years as very short time frames in life.

You will need partners with deep pockets. What would you offer to attract such individuals.

Realistically to reach your goals in your time frame you would probably need to dedicate yourself full time, forget about family, and either cut all your personal expenses to the bone to generate considerable cash or luck into a wealthy benefactor.
 
QUOTE (PaulW @ Feb 6 2010, 02:34 PM) ... 1. Is my $100K and $200K goals achievable? If no, what is reasonable?
not in 3 or 5 years UNLESS $1M is invested by JV partners immediately.

QUOTE (PaulW @ Feb 6 2010, 02:34 PM) ... 2. What short term and long term strategies and steps would you suggest I take?
start with a few small homes, possibly suited.

more reads here:
5 ways to make money ...3. Is 5 hours per week enough until I can work FT?
enough to research real estate (RE) ? .. yes .. better 10/week .. 2-3 nights/week 2-3 hours and 4-5 on weekend

QUOTE (PaulW @ Feb 6 2010, 02:34 PM) ...4. How important is having a Venture partner to accomplish this?
VERY .. but you should build a track record first .. who will invest with you if you don`t know what you are doing ?

QUOTE (PaulW @ Feb 6 2010, 02:34 PM) ...5. What are some steps you would suggest to find a Venture partner(s)?
get started ON YOUR OWN .. WITH YOUR OWN CASH .. do a few deals successfully (!!) .. then ask others to participate with you !

QUOTE (PaulW @ Feb 6 2010, 02:34 PM) ... 6. What kind of properties or approach would work the best? I know it`s probably any and it depends...but what would you suggest I focus on i.e. multi-family buy and hold, rent-to-own?
see above .. MF is great .. not to start .. but eventually .. but you need $250,000 .. better $500,000 cash .. and that takes a while
 
are you willing to invest outside of the GTA?  Not much cashflow in Toronto.





I was in almost in the exact situation as you three years ago, right down to the numbers albeit I`m a bit younger than you.  Our goals are a bit different though.  I am working on completely paying off my mortgage in five years.  I will worry about X$/yr later.  My plan is to retire and manage my properties (and others) FT within the next 10 yrs.

Also, this type of goal is the type of "personal belize" that Don speaks against. Wealth is a marathon, not a sprint. Rather than thinking about how much you want to make in three years, think about the type of lifestyle you want to have in 10 and work back from there.

And I agree with the others. This type of goal will require partners. What do you bring to the table?
 
QUOTE (ThomasBeyer @ Feb 6 2010, 07:12 PM) not in 3 or 5 years UNLESS $1M is invested by JV partners immediately.

start with a few small homes, possibly suited.

more reads here:
5 ways to make money http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-3347-5_ways_to_make_money.html

How to get started http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-4391-How_to_get_started_.html

enough to research real estate (RE) ? .. yes .. better 10/week .. 2-3 nights/week 2-3 hours and 4-5 on weekend

VERY .. but you should build a track record first .. who will invest with you if you don`t know what you are doing ?

get started ON YOUR OWN .. WITH YOUR OWN CASH .. do a few deals successfully (!!) .. then ask others to participate with you !


see above .. MF is great .. not to start .. but eventually .. but you need $250,000 .. better $500,000 cash .. and that takes a while

1. In your experience...what is realistic time frame for $100K and $200K?
2. Been reading alot of rent-to-own...seems like an interesting way to get CASH at the end of the lease to help with MF later/ what are your thoughts on rent-to-own?
3. Could do 10 hrs/wk
4. Good point that you need a track record first...does not seem to be mentioned enough.
5. I read your website and curious how you got started (mentioned you had your own biz I think), how you find JV partners and do you only invest now in MF?
Thanks for your advice...btw I enjoy all your posts (very insightful and down to earth).
 
QUOTE (PaulW @ Feb 6 2010, 05:46 PM) 1. In your experience...what is realistic time frame for $100K and $200K?
2. Been reading alot of rent-to-own...seems like an interesting way to get CASH at the end of the lease to help with MF later/ what are your thoughts on rent-to-own?
3. Could do 10 hrs/wk
4. Good point that you need a track record first...does not seem to be mentioned enough.
5. I read your website and curious how you got started (mentioned you had your own biz I think), how you find JV partners and do you only invest now in MF?
Thanks for your advice...btw I enjoy all your posts (very insightful and down to earth).
1: flipping 20 homes for 50K profit each, doing one/quarter and with a 2-3 year time frame on each home would yield $1M .. and would take 4-8 years .. but needs seed capital

2: yes this makes a lot of sense but takes a while to learn and and years to become a master

4: some folks are natural sales people .. they can sell anything .. most investors would like to see some proof

5: started with curiosity in Vancouver in 1988 .. had the chance to buy our condo we rented for 80K .. and I thought "outrageous .. overpriced" .. of course today that unit is 400K .. nevertheless decided to learn .. which took me 5 years to actually take a course (Raymond Aaron, Toronto) .. and read a few books .. and did decide to do s.th. .. which took another 5 years to actually do s.t. .. i.e. 10 years from "gee, let`s do s.th. to actually doing s.th." .. bought a first revenue condo for 80K in Calgary with 20K cash .. sold 4 years ago for 170K .. then a 2nd with 20K LOC ("no money down") for another 80K in Edmonton (which I still own today) .. then a 3rd in 1999 for 80K (sold at a loss in 2002 for 78K) .. but then realized that buying in bulk makes more sense than buying retail .. bought a 15 suiter in Edmonton for $570,000 in 2000 with my dad .. then a 20 suiter in 2001 with my own cash for 740K .. then a 24 suiter in 2002 for $1M after I had sold the 15 suiter (with a 100K profit) and the 20 suiter (with a 250K profit) .. and then asked others to co-invest .. initially 5-6 guys + my own money for yet another 24 suiter in 2003 (sold in 2006 for 400K profit or so ) .. then a 12 suiter, 47 suiter, 120 suiter and 21 suiter in 2004 .. all four were 50/50 JVs with about $2M raised from 25 people while running a software / consulting firm .. all real estate part-time until late 2004 .. then full time after 2005 .. some sold for big profits .. some still owned .. rest is history as they say .. then brought on a partner in 2005 to raise more money (we raised about $12M together) .. then 3 other partners in 2006, 2007 and 2009 .. to allow more delegation / controlled growth .. today the asset base is about $90-$95M with over 500 investors and $36M raised .. in 5 LPs ... 16 buildings with 1200 tenants and annual revenue exceeding $8M .. some buildings being exited / already sold .. most still going as value increase takes a while .. see our website track record page (check the early years ..)

so yes, in a decade a lot can be done .. but it always starts small, then faster .. it is hard work .. long hours .. sme calculated risk taking and of course Edmonton was "on fire" from late 90`s to 2007 or so .. and with 15% down and 60% property value growth 300-500% ROI on your money in those days was doable .. this is harder today with 20-30% down and slower value growth ..
 
QUOTE (PaulW @ Feb 6 2010, 05:46 PM) 1. In your experience...what is realistic time frame for $100K and $200K?
2. Been reading alot of rent-to-own...seems like an interesting way to get CASH at the end of the lease to help with MF later/ what are your thoughts on rent-to-own?
3. Could do 10 hrs/wk
4. Good point that you need a track record first...does not seem to be mentioned enough.
5. I read your website and curious how you got started (mentioned you had your own biz I think), how you find JV partners and do you only invest now in MF?
Thanks for your advice...btw I enjoy all your posts (very insightful and down to earth).

First all, read my blog for a bit of investment insights.
To get $200K per year net cashflow in 10 years, is near impossible. Those are income levels of lawyers, doctors, engineers and geologists with decades of experience. So, if it was so easy to make this in real estate, then wouldn`t you think half of Canada would do so?

Most people are happy wih ROIs in the 10-15% - in fact that this is an understatement. In real estate, people are hoping to use leverage to get better returns. But what many forget is that they do a lot of the work as well. So where does ROI end and salary start? Note that according to Revenue Canada, the profits made by many real estate operators are active income rather than Cap gains. So a goal of $200K per year of income is not very realistic.

If you compare positive cashflow with dividend yield, you may realize that passive income of $200K per year may require a net worth of 10 million rather than assets of $10 million (i.e. 40 leveraged properties). Hoping to achieve these revenue streams with only 5 to 10 hrs a week? - get real. Try 50 to 60hrs per week.

Enough encouraging words, hope this helps.
 
Interesting Thread.

I like to be creative and you have some things going for you. IE credit and willingness to learn.

The couple things lacking I see is cash first off, lack of track record, and maybe time but with a good team this isn`t an issue.

I think what might suit you at the moment is to team up with an Investor who has the track record and is bringing in JV money but may be in need of a mortgage partner. You have verifiable income. Down Payment Verification might be an issue but speak with a good mortgage broker on that as we don`t know every detail.

I see this being beneficial in a number of ways. You get a track record you will be a part owner in some properties hence you will get cash flow and you will over time attract partners to yourself as you learn the system of investing of the person your partnering with and build your team.

Just a thought. Might not be $200k in 5 years but I would definitely think it would be a start and even if you started making $10 - 20k per year you can reinvest that in your business and start to grow.

Regards,
 
QUOTE (markl @ Feb 6 2010, 11:08 PM) ... and even if you started making $10 - 20k per year you can reinvest that in your business and start to grow.

Regards,

I think Mark makes a great point here - the fastest way to grow is by reinvesting your profits. This way you grow exponentially and not linearly.

Our strategy is to pare down our expenses so that we can happily live on my wife`s salary (teacher at $90K/yr), while I put as much time and effort as I can into Rent To Own real estate. Every penny that is generated from my efforts will be used to fund more RTO purchases, which will in turn allow me more capacity for more deals.

The way I look at it - if we can do more deals with our own money, it will give us a stronger track record right off the bat, which we can then use to attract JV partners further down the road.

I would think $100,000 passive in 3 years is not impossible, but very unlikely. However, you can still achieve some significant results in the next year or two that will put your life on a new path and give you confidence to keep moving forward. As Thomas says, get yourself educated and experienced with a few deals first - TAKE ACTION - and as you move forward the landscape will change and you will gain new perspective as to what the future may hold.
 
QUOTE (markl @ Feb 6 2010, 11:08 PM) Just a thought. Might not be $200k in 5 years but I would definitely think it would be a start and even if you started making $10 - 20k per year you can reinvest that in your business and start to grow.

Regards,

Thanks Mark...I was originally looking at 8 years for $200K and 3 years for $100K and yes all the funds would be re-invested back in as my current job would pay my bills until I quit. Some of the posts mentioned I want $200K in 5 years which was not the case and not sure if they assumed funds would be re-invested.

I`m planning on buying your book and would like to know more about rent-to-own as it could be a starting point (depending on the complexities involved).

I like your suggestion on a "mortgage investor"...suggestions on where to find someone open to that concept?

Some other great feedback/insights from the group. I guess what I got out of it...

1. Perhaps my time frame is too short...might need to add 5+ years to both (8-10yrs) for $100K and 13-15 yrs for $200K
2. 5 hrs/week is not enough...thought so...10 hrs/wk is a better start
3. Buy my first property with my own money...biggest challenge without "Borrowing from the personal LOC"...probably need to do some creative thinking on this one
4. Build some credibility/track record before approaching JV money
5. JV money is going to be key for my goals (pros and cons)
6. Start small and let it build
7. Re-invest funds back in (may help shorten #1)

Did I miss anything?

Paul
 
QUOTE (PaulW @ Feb 7 2010, 09:33 AM) Thanks Mark...I was originally looking at 8 years for $200K and 3 years for $100K and yes all the funds would be re-invested back in as my current job would pay my bills until I quit. Some of the posts mentioned I want $200K in 5 years which was not the case and not sure if they assumed funds would be re-invested.

I`m planning on buying your book and would like to know more about rent-to-own as it could be a starting point (depending on the complexities involved).

I like your suggestion on a "mortgage investor"...suggestions on where to find someone open to that concept?

Some other great feedback/insights from the group. I guess what I got out of it...

1. Perhaps my time frame is too short...might need to add 5+ years to both (8-10yrs) for $100K and 13-15 yrs for $200K
2. 5 hrs/week is not enough...thought so...10 hrs/wk is a better start
3. Buy my first property with my own money...biggest challenge without "Borrowing from the personal LOC"...probably need to do some creative thinking on this one
4. Build some credibility/track record before approaching JV money
5. JV money is going to be key for my goals (pros and cons)
6. Start small and let it build
7. Re-invest funds back in (may help shorten #1)

Did I miss anything?

Paul

I think you have it.  that is a much more realistic view on timeframes, etc.  dont be afraid to diversify as well.  RTOs are great, but so are revenue generating properties, condo conversions, etc.  take the time to see what makes sense to you.
 
Hi Paul,

You have good intentions. not realistic goals though considering your circumstance.

I strongly suggest:

- Change your goal to $2,500 net income after financing per month in 2-3 years! see if you can achieve that first. Then, in 2-3 years, whether you achieve your goal or not, you`ll have a much better idea of where you stand and what you can realistically expect in the next 5 years. better than trying to guess everything now and confuse yourself.
- Focus on Plexes (2-4 units properties) in top towns NOT in Toronto. focus on maximizing net income, in other words high CAP must be your first priority.
- Due to distance (not in Toronto), increase hours spent per week to 15!
HOWEVER, Regarding hours spent, you will have to internalize the following:
As oppose to your current employee job, hours spent as a RE investor will vary dramatically from month to month. In reality, each purchase, your wife should be OK with you spending say 30 hours a week on average in the 2 months that begin 2 weeks prior to closing until 1.5 month after closing. Then, between purchases you may be able to spend only 5-10 hours a week.
This is especially important because your strategy should be to purchase in places 1-3 hours from home. CDN tire used to have great deals if you need a suitcase - like 5 suitcases for only $50! prepare to stay the night if you want to do it professionally and stay mentally capable.

This is the main reason passive investors exist. They partner with FT investors so they can keep their day job. Everyone is happy (Win-Win) because for the FT investor, if you do the math, is not too busy too... most weeks.

Regards,
Neil
 
QUOTE (PaulW @ Feb 7 2010, 08:33 AM) Thanks Mark...I was originally looking at 8 years for $200K and 3 years for $100K and yes all the funds would be re-invested back in as my current job would pay my bills until I quit. Some of the posts mentioned I want $200K in 5 years which was not the case and not sure if they assumed funds would be re-invested.

I`m planning on buying your book and would like to know more about rent-to-own as it could be a starting point (depending on the complexities involved).

I like your suggestion on a "mortgage investor"...suggestions on where to find someone open to that concept?

Some other great feedback/insights from the group. I guess what I got out of it...

1. Perhaps my time frame is too short...might need to add 5+ years to both (8-10yrs) for $100K and 13-15 yrs for $200K
2. 5 hrs/week is not enough...thought so...10 hrs/wk is a better start
3. Buy my first property with my own money...biggest challenge without "Borrowing from the personal LOC"...probably need to do some creative thinking on this one
4. Build some credibility/track record before approaching JV money
5. JV money is going to be key for my goals (pros and cons)
6. Start small and let it build
7. Re-invest funds back in (may help shorten #1)

Did I miss anything?

Paul

Yeah, did you read Mark`s book on Rent-To-Own?

It is a great starting point and easy to read. First thing I did was pulled my own credit report - something I hadn`t done in years. I was shocked, especially regarding the effects that a line of credit has on your rating. I first opened a line of credit in 2003 or 2004 for `just-in-case I come accross a real-estate investment too juicy to ingnore`. I was so innocent.

I used a tiny amount of it for private fun, and my monthly interest charges were so small, $10 to $50 per month. Compared to my other accounts that was nothing. So, I couldn`t bother to pay them every month. Guess what, that was in 2004 and they still show on my credit rating. How naive of me.

Thanks Mark for a jewel of a book!
 
QUOTE (investmart @ Feb 7 2010, 01:05 PM) This is the main reason passive investors exist. They partner with FT investors so they can keep their day job. Everyone is happy (Win-Win) because for the FT investor, if you do the math, is not too busy too... most weeks.

Regards,
Neil

Thanks Neil. Not sure what you mean by the last sentence above?
 
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