As buyers what do you think about having this form written into the conditions of the contract. I just went through a negotiation process where we included that the seller must include an SPIS in the conditions, so when the counter came back the seller crossed it out saying that he didn`t know most of the answers (which is BS since he`s had the property for 26 years) so with our counter we again included the SPIS hand-written to make a point that it is important to us. Again when their counter came to us again it was crossed out again. To my team and I it is important that we know the history of the problems to be prepared and wage exactly if the property is for us. Am I overvalueing this form or do you believe that he is hiding something. I know you can`t really judge since you don`t know the property but in any case it does come across are suspicious. Do you require an SPIS with investment purchases
SPIS
- Thread starter zorant
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2008
- Messages
- 730
What province? What`s an SPIS? Some kind of defect disclosure document?
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,230
SPIS = Seller Property Information Sheet
This is a disclosure doc frequently included by realtors when offering on a property in Ontario, I`ve seen a similar doc in BC.
This document does not carry a lot of weight as in my own home I needed to replace a sewer line lateral and no mention was made of it in the SPIS, if the sellers make any false statements just try to find them after the fact. They suddenely become `hard to find`.
That said it is useful to sum up any potential defects or repairs but it is dependant on the seller being totally transparent and honest with a clear `memory`.
As for the OP it is obvious the seller has issues they wish to not disclose so factor that into the offer and decide what the property is worth to you.
What area is the property in?
What is the potential use? ie: Buy and Hold, single family, duplex/triplex
What is the potential income of the property?
What is the age and condition of the property?
Discuss these facts with your realtor and decide if it is worth pursuing further...
This is a disclosure doc frequently included by realtors when offering on a property in Ontario, I`ve seen a similar doc in BC.
This document does not carry a lot of weight as in my own home I needed to replace a sewer line lateral and no mention was made of it in the SPIS, if the sellers make any false statements just try to find them after the fact. They suddenely become `hard to find`.
That said it is useful to sum up any potential defects or repairs but it is dependant on the seller being totally transparent and honest with a clear `memory`.
As for the OP it is obvious the seller has issues they wish to not disclose so factor that into the offer and decide what the property is worth to you.
What area is the property in?
What is the potential use? ie: Buy and Hold, single family, duplex/triplex
What is the potential income of the property?
What is the age and condition of the property?
Discuss these facts with your realtor and decide if it is worth pursuing further...
The Seller property information sheet in Ontario is optional of all the deals I have done in the last year we have had 1 that had a SPIS. The majority of the properties we are buying are non owner occupied so the seller does in fact probably not know the answers. We also look for under maintained and poorly managed properties to purchase as obviously we can get some good equity gain from a little elbow grease.
For this specific property I would not kill the deal with out a SPIS but if it is a multi I would include a fire inspection report, House inspector. I wouldn`t look on it as the seller trying to hide something. It could be that his agent did such a poor job of explaining what it actually is he is confused. We all know a confused mind says no.
Is it suspicious? Yes a little but use it as a bargaining tool get a little bit better price because you are not getting it. Then do your due diligence on the property.
Regards,
For this specific property I would not kill the deal with out a SPIS but if it is a multi I would include a fire inspection report, House inspector. I wouldn`t look on it as the seller trying to hide something. It could be that his agent did such a poor job of explaining what it actually is he is confused. We all know a confused mind says no.
Is it suspicious? Yes a little but use it as a bargaining tool get a little bit better price because you are not getting it. Then do your due diligence on the property.
Regards,
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 253
It could be that either or both his agent & Lawyer have advised him not to use the SPIS.
How can a document such as the SPIS serve in the public's best interest? Sellers are being asked questions that are beyond the scope of their expertise and knowledge. Innocent mistakes can be construed as misrepresentation and are an invitation to litigation.
These Disclosure forms, are usually completed by homeowners who are "totally unqualified to give opinions on the state of electrical, plumbing, structural integrity, drainage, environmental etc."
Realtors have ethical and legal duties are to protect the seller's best interests. How could they possibly recommend that the seller should enter this minefield by completing an SPIS?
Unfortunately, many realtors are still casually laying the document on the table and handing the sellers a pen to fill out the form without any discussion about the implications. Remember that realtors all have errors and omissions insurance for lawsuits, the average homeowner does not!
Sellers who sign SPIS forms and agents who encourage them to do so are asking for trouble.
Disclosure Form is a Danger to Buyers and Sellers
Read more about it here:
http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/Real_Estate_Discussion/62-19058-Disclosure_Form_is_a_Danger_to_Buyers_and_Sellers.html
Beware of signing disclosure forms
http://www.aaron.ca/columns/2006-10-21.htm
Honesty won't resolve disclosure form issues; The Great SPIS Myth
http://www.aaron.ca/columns/2009-10-24.htm
Vendors take risk signing SPIS form
http://www.aaron.ca/columns/2008-07-26.htm
Signing SPIS form remains a huge risk
http://www.aaron.ca/columns/2007-09-08.htm
SPIS form could spell rocky legal ride for buyers
http://www.aaron.ca/columns/2008-06-28.htm
Disclosure: It's seller beware
http://www.aaron.ca/columns/2006-11-04.htm
How can a document such as the SPIS serve in the public's best interest? Sellers are being asked questions that are beyond the scope of their expertise and knowledge. Innocent mistakes can be construed as misrepresentation and are an invitation to litigation.
These Disclosure forms, are usually completed by homeowners who are "totally unqualified to give opinions on the state of electrical, plumbing, structural integrity, drainage, environmental etc."
Realtors have ethical and legal duties are to protect the seller's best interests. How could they possibly recommend that the seller should enter this minefield by completing an SPIS?
Unfortunately, many realtors are still casually laying the document on the table and handing the sellers a pen to fill out the form without any discussion about the implications. Remember that realtors all have errors and omissions insurance for lawsuits, the average homeowner does not!
Sellers who sign SPIS forms and agents who encourage them to do so are asking for trouble.
Disclosure Form is a Danger to Buyers and Sellers
Read more about it here:
http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/Real_Estate_Discussion/62-19058-Disclosure_Form_is_a_Danger_to_Buyers_and_Sellers.html
Beware of signing disclosure forms
http://www.aaron.ca/columns/2006-10-21.htm
Honesty won't resolve disclosure form issues; The Great SPIS Myth
http://www.aaron.ca/columns/2009-10-24.htm
Vendors take risk signing SPIS form
http://www.aaron.ca/columns/2008-07-26.htm
Signing SPIS form remains a huge risk
http://www.aaron.ca/columns/2007-09-08.htm
SPIS form could spell rocky legal ride for buyers
http://www.aaron.ca/columns/2008-06-28.htm
Disclosure: It's seller beware
http://www.aaron.ca/columns/2006-11-04.htm